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Post by nashville11 on Jun 25, 2018 13:40:11 GMT
We are a group of like-minded people that gather to discuss a host of topics from weight loss, to current events. Our thread celebrates liberal diversity, welcomes new friends, and respects all opinions. We count everything from calories to points but, we never count our chickens before they are hatched.
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 25, 2018 13:47:52 GMT
The JA wants us to start just throwing people back over the border without bothering to go through any legal process. Of course he'd like to do away with the court system. Dictators don't bother with courts and legalities. Why do we even bother having laws at all? More and more we see hatred being flamed across the country. Yesterday is San Francisco a lady called the police because a little girl was selling bottled water on the sidewalk to raise money to go to Disneyworld, but she didn't have a permit. This is what our country has sunk to. Better not let your grandchildren set up a lemonade stand. Of course now the lady is apologizing and saying she overreacted. I hope she really does recognize that she was totally in the wrong, but more likely it is just that she regrets the negative publicity she is now receiving. I don't feel well this morning. Maybe that's why I am sounding pretty negative here myself. Will check back later, and hopefully will feel better and will have found a reason to be more cheerful.
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Post by lani on Jun 25, 2018 14:46:10 GMT
Re: the girl selling water. I live fairly close to the Bay Area. The reporting I've heard said the girl was selling the water "loudly, for several hours". The woman who called on her (she now says she only pretended to call) did not live there, a family member of hers did. The girl was asked to be less loud or to relocate with no result. I agree this was a poor response by the woman, and should have been handled some other way. This is just a note on how stories get distorted.
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Post by DotRen on Jun 25, 2018 16:01:17 GMT
There was an HOA here a few years back that made the news -in a bad way - because a couple of little girls set up a lemonade stand to raise money for a sibling that had cancer. The HOA stormed in, made them close it and hit the parents with a fine!
That, to me, is a "what have we come to?" moment.
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 25, 2018 19:02:11 GMT
That, to me, is a "what have we come to?" moment.
While I think the current atmosphere of incivility and just plain hatred we find our country wallowing in has been greatly exacerbated by the JA, it is not all the JA's fault. He didn't start this. He was smart enough to recognize it festering in a big portion of the population and used it to his advantage. He poured lighter fuel on it and lit a flame, but the seeds were already there. So how did we allow this all to happen and reach the point where it is epidemic in proportion?
IMO, Maxine Waters is wrong in her call for people to confront and harass people from the administration. All that does is make the situation worse. I much prefer Michelle Obama's approach of "when they go low, we go high."
I refuse to believe that there is no way to turn this current ugly atmosphere around. There must be a way. I just don't know what it is, but I don't think fanning the flames is the right answer.
I'm from a red state. I know a LOT of Republicans, in fact the majority of my extended family are all Republicans. While not all think this president is doing a good job, many of them do. But the comments I primarily hear from them all, whether they agree with a policy or not, deal with "the media, Democrats, etc. are very unfair to this President." Of course, they hear that preached to them continually on Fox, but nevertheless they believe that. And no, they do not see the hypocrisy or the irony. So taking Congresswoman Waters suggestion is certainly not going to heal the divide there.
There has to be a way to bring the entire country back to reasonable discourse, but I don't know what it is and certainly we are not headed in that direction now.
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Post by DotRen on Jun 25, 2018 21:58:30 GMT
I think the way to start is for us, individually, to stop responding to the hate WITH hate. The supporters think the detractors are completely wrong and vice versa. The only way to create a middle ground is to (to coin a phrase from Susan Powter) "stop the madness". It takes 2 to argue.
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 26, 2018 13:02:04 GMT
I think the way to start is for us, individually, to stop responding to the hate WITH hate. The supporters think the detractors are completely wrong and vice versa. The only way to create a middle ground is to (to coin a phrase from Susan Powter) "stop the madness". It takes 2 to argue. Good point DotRen. It does take two to argue, and we who are Democrats need to own the fact that while we may believe our cause is righteous, it's never going to be realized unless we all come together and work as a team. We've got to stop buying into the hate message ourselves and instead of answering tit for tat, find a better way. While it's very hard to find these days (almost impossible) I still do believe in the basic goodness of people as a whole. We've got to stop letting the voice of hatred drown out the voice of reason.
The JA has stoked all the pent-up frustration and anger hiding down within people. He's told them it's o.k. to unleash that. Well, it's NOT o.k. It's destroying our country. So we have to find away to stand up against it not with shouting more hate, but in shouting a message of this is what we want our country to be. We want to go back to civility. We want secure borders, but we also want them tempered with compassion. We want families together. We want to be as Ronald Reagan said, "America is a shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere." Certainly we are not that now, but we CAN be. I have to believe that we can be. We may not agree on how to get there, but if we come together and work with that goal we can find a way.
The problem is the JA doesn't want that. If we ever find that, it will be the end of him. So he works diligently, and loudly to prevent it. The media aids and abets him by covering his every word. Do I really need to see him giving a campaign speech for a politician in South Carolina, or Nevada, or anywhere? No, we don't need to see that. If he is making a statement about the nation, then we need to see it. If he's making a political stump speech for a candidate, that's not national news. His every tweet should not be news. If you want to follow him on Twitter, then see his tweets. But every time his fingers twitch across the keyboard spouting more hatred and telling more lies, I don't need to have 24/7 news coverage of it.
Democrats need to start making news about what they want to see ACCOMPLISHED, not just how awful the JA is and how intractable the Republicans are. We need to give people something to believe in again, not just something to be against. "Yes we can," was more than just a political slogan. It was a message of hope, and Democrats need to find that again.
The leaders who have made a real difference in our country and who are remembered long after their deaths are the ones who offered a message of hope.
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Post by DotRen on Jun 26, 2018 13:08:14 GMT
Wonderful post
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 26, 2018 21:12:11 GMT
Pat, I think we're all tired of having sand kicked in our face. I understand your frustration, and I think we all feel it. I just don't see how following the same path as the JA is going to help. Of course, you are right that so far nothing seems to be helping. There's no excuse for what our country has become. But there must be a way to redeem it. I have to believe that there is, because to think otherwise is just too sad to contemplate. I think everyone on this thread wants the same thing just as we have all along. Lots of opinions as to how to achieve that are good. Certainly just being passive is not going to work. It's not going to just magically fall in our laps. We have to take action. I think Maxine Waters form of action is wrong, but then there is no single right answer. If there was, we'd have already solved this long ago.
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 26, 2018 23:19:23 GMT
We are definitely a cyber family, Pat. I understand your anger. I'm angry too. This is most definitely not what I ever imagined my country becoming. When he announced he was running for President, I laughed and said no way can he ever get elected. When he got the nomination, I still thought no way can he ever get elected. The American people are smarter than that. And they were smarter than that as he didn't win the popular vote, but a lot of good that did us because however it happened he managed to win the EC. When he was sworn in, I said he will be the worst President ever, but never did I even begin to imagine just how bad he would be. And never did I begin to imagine just how quickly his flames of hate and dissension would spread. Nor did I ever imagine just how much he would be able to hold the Republicans in fear of alienating him. At the inauguration I still had hope that they would not bow down, but clearly I was wrong about that too. It would be so easy to just throw our hands up in the air and give up, but I have to believe that ultimately the good guys will "win" even though I admit that I see absolutely no sign of that happening right now. This is no longer the America I grew up in, the America I raised my daughter in, the America my husband sacrificed everything to reach and be a part of, and it certainly is not the America I want my grandchildren growing up in. America used to be great. I want that America back again, not this aberration that the JA has created. When I hear "the land of the free and the home of the brave," I want to believe that's true again. I want to be a proud American again, and I am proud of "my America." But the America I am seeing all around us right now that is being controlled by this JA doesn't make me proud. It makes me embarrassed and ashamed that we have allowed our country to sink so low. I don't care that a Republican holds the White House. I care that this JA holds the White House, and I don't think he is really a Republican at all. I think he has no allegiance to anyone other than himself.
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 27, 2018 13:57:26 GMT
According to the morning news, Democrats had some good news in yesterday's elections and Republicans did also. As I look at the election results this primary season, it seems that they reflect the fact that our country is becoming more and more polarized. In both parties members who are closer to the extreme end of the spectrum than to the middle of the spectrum seem to be the ones winning the primaries. Traditional wisdom, I had always thought, was that middle of the road candidates are more likely to be elected. Maybe that's in general elections as opposed to primary elections, but maybe it's just not true at all anymore. What do you think?
While I have always considered myself to be definitely left of center when we are speaking of traditional Democrats vs Republicans, I have never considered myself to be at the extreme end of the left spectrum. I'm not really sure where I fit anymore. I know I don't fit anywhere on the right, but do I really fit on the new left? The time has come, as we have discussed before, for a viable third party. But I don't think we're going to see one anytime soon.
Maybe I'm just a dinosaur, because extremes tend to make me uncomfortable. Or maybe I actually am more of an "extreme" than I always thought. If so, it's because I'm being pushed to become more extreme in order to stand up for what I believe is right. Maybe there are people on both sides who feel that way. Whatever happened to compromise? Sure, I know that in a compromise nobody gets everything they want, but nobody loses everything either. Certainly compromise seems to be an archaic word in our political system today. There are some things, however, that you can't compromise about. Stripping children away from their families who are asking for asylum would definitely be one of those things. But securing our borders? Surely there must be some room for compromise there. Banning people because of their religion--no way! But carefully screening people before they are admitted, I think that's already being done. Adding more personnel to do this if needed, I can get on board with that.
Personally, I am sick of hearing that Democrats want open borders, Democrats want MS-13 gang members, Democrats want . . . The Democrats I know want border security, compassion and to lend a helping hand to those who need it, and to simply be good citizens of the world. I think that the JA's rhetoric against Democrats is driving more and more Democrats to head for the extreme end of the spectrum just as it is driving more Republican voters to head the opposite direction. I think he knows that, and that it is a very calculated plan on his part. I think he is mentally disturbed, but I also think he is smart and cunning.
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Post by DotRen on Jun 27, 2018 16:26:08 GMT
At this point, I don't think there is an answer. Everyone, on both sides, are too aggressive and "raw". It may take a decade to get the Nation back to the somewhat amicable state it was in before. There was always tension, sure, but this really feels so much more heightened.
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 27, 2018 17:48:35 GMT
DH and I were just discussing the fact that we may never see the "America" we have always known again, at least not in our lifetimes.
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 27, 2018 18:16:46 GMT
Not to be misunderstood above, I am glad to see new faces coming to the forefront in the Democratic party, and I do hope that they are going to be able to lead us to something better. We need fresh ideas and fresh faces. We need people who are not jaded by the political grind, but are enthusiastic and ready to make changes.
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 27, 2018 18:20:47 GMT
With Justice Kennedy retiring, the SC is going to be moving even further right. While Justice Kennedy was a conservative, he was also sometimes a swing vote. The right could not always count on the fact that he'd vote in their favor. Now that the JA is going to get to nominate another SC Justice, there's not much hope for any balance.
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