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Post by lani on Jun 4, 2020 18:27:36 GMT
bbbearsmom, luanne, birdgal, finreporter, lani, Holly Gail, nashville11, please, please no one leave! I need to hear all your voices every day. Criticizing right wing evangelicals in no way reflects on kind, thoughtful people of faith. To me that would be like lumping all white people under a racist label because of the abhorrent white minority who are racist.
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Post by luanne on Jun 4, 2020 18:35:03 GMT
bbbearsmom , luanne , birdgal , finreporter , lani , Holly Gail , nashville11 , please, please no one leave! I need to hear all your voices every day. Criticizing right wing evangelicals in no way reflects on kind, thoughtful people of faith. To me that would be like lumping all white people under a racist label because of the abhorrent white minority who are racist. Oh I'm not going anywhere. The religion discussion has made me think again about my own beliefs. I was raised in the Presbyterian church, we went every Sunday. But I was never comfortable with the sermons. My mother had preached God is loving and forgiving, and the minister was fire and brimstone. My mother also told me that the Bible was basically a book of stories that were meant to provide lessons. So I never took it as "gospel word". I went through a period in college where I converted to Catholicism. I'll admit, it was mostly to impress a guy I liked. I became the fastest lapsed Catholic in the world. I remember going to Mass with one of my friends who had been raised Catholic. According to her if you stayed at Mass through a certain point, you were "good", and could leave then. That never made sense to me.
Anyway after college I didn't attend any church again. I went to Christmas Eve services a few times with my mom and sister, but that was it. I began to realize that while I couldn't shake the thought that there was some kind of higher power, I was becoming very much opposed to organized religion. My dh, who was also raised attending church, would call himself an atheist. My dds probably would as well. I feel bad sometimes because we never took them to church. I have said that they didn't have anything to rebel against.
When my older dd was in about 3rd grade she wanted to go with a friend to her Bible group. I said okay. She came back after the first meeting and said she was told she was "unclean". She was very confused because as she told me she bathed daily. That was the last Bible group she attended. I was appalled.
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Post by finreporter on Jun 4, 2020 18:54:49 GMT
oh man i am really hoping that i haven't said anything (considering i'm a newbie to this group) that makes anyone want to leave or offends. you guys are great and i wouldn't want to be the cause of anything negative towards any of you.
my mom is deeply religious and simultaneously deeply progressive. so i understand that not all christians are part of the far right evangelical crowd. my mom is living proof of that as are many others.
i'm an atheist but doesn't mean i don't respect the beliefs of others when it comes to religion, that is, unless they are using it as a shield to hurt others. other than that, no problem at all.
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Post by bbbearsmom on Jun 4, 2020 19:01:57 GMT
When my older dd was in about 3rd grade she wanted to go with a friend to her Bible group. I said okay. She came back after the first meeting and said she was told she was "unclean". She was very confused because as she told me she bathed daily. That was the last Bible group she attended. I was appalled. A story told to me by an old boyfriend back in the 1960's: A family on the street was mixed, Protestant and Catholic. The children either went to Catholic school or Saturday Catechism Class. One day they came home and told their mom (who was the Protestant) that Grandma & Grandpa (her parents) were going to hell because they weren't Catholic. That was the end of their Catholic education. I was raised Roman Catholic but have always chaffed at rules and people telling me what to do so I didn't last too long once I was an adult. My first marriage was to another Catholic and we couldn't even agree about going to Mass. I was brought up you got there early, and stayed until the end. He was the type, got there by the gospel and leave at communion and you were good. We didn't agree on a lot of things, hence "first" marriage.
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Post by nashville11 on Jun 4, 2020 19:16:06 GMT
Everyone, no one has offended me to make me leave the group. I'm just not sure that I'm a good fit for the group anymore. It makes me feel uncomfortable when people lump people of faith together with the far right extremists. Perhaps that's not intended, but it is how it often comes across. I don't like to use the word religious, because it doesn't really convey how I feel about my faith, but all of us get passionate about the things we discuss here. I am bad about throwing all Republicans into a "group" and implying that they all think alike, when in truth I know they don't all think the same anymore than all Democrats think the same. So we all do that in one way or another. We have very different experiences, and that's good because it makes us each unique and gives us different perspectives on the issues. I admit that I may be overly sensitive when I hear things like "Bible thumping Christians," "Christians are such hypocrites", etc. I don't know that either one of those phrases have actually been used here, but you get the drift. That's o.k. We're all entitled to our feelings, and entitled to express them. I don't expect any of you to walk on egg shells because it makes me uncomfortable. If that's how you feel, you're certainly entitled to that. But for me, my faith is very deep and very personal so when I read comments that imply that someone who yes probably is a hypocrite calling themselves a Christian when they truly have no idea what the word means is the same as everyone else who considers themselves to be Christian, it hurts me. As I suspect Pat has been deeply hurt by people who called themselves Christian but perhaps condemned her for who she loves. If they did that, then they were wrong. But please don't lump me in with those people. Pat, I am not singling you out other than that I know you have strong feelings and you have shared your reason for those feelings which I think is perfectly legitimate, and I'm truly sorry that has happened to you. You know I consider you a friend. Others may have also had bad experiences. Not everyone who calls themselves Christian or everyone who has a deep faith from a different religion is the same. I'm not expressing myself well at all here. But please know that I am not angry at anyone. I probably just need a break. There's so much negativity in the world that it's really getting to me. I've been a part of this thread for years, and I am not disappearing. I will continue to read, and maybe join in from time to time. Maybe I will even be back on a regular basis at some point, but right now I just don't feel connected to the group, if that makes any sense. You are a wonderful group of women. And I am proud to "know" each of you. I just need a break for awhile, and I'm sorry if I made any of you feel that you have offended me because truly none of you have. Nothing stays the same, groups evolve, and right now I'm just not a good fit. That's on me, not on any of you. I'll probably be back at some point, so save me a seat.
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Post by DotRen on Jun 4, 2020 19:31:19 GMT
Personally, I don't consider Trump a Christian because he seems to "preach" hate and division. That is NOT how I was raised. I was raised as a Methodist, but when my Grandmother remarried, her new husband was Catholic, so even though I never converted, I did attend Catholic church and I follow the Lenten practices I was taught there. And I married a Baptist lol - so you can say I'm a non-denominational Christian, but a Christian nonetheless That being said, I do get offended at some of the (appears to be) anti-Christian comments on here occasionally, and I remind myself that you're talking about a specific person(s) and not the general Christian population. Some of my own comments on here are definitely not comments a good Christian should say, that's for sure!
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Post by luanne on Jun 4, 2020 20:19:53 GMT
nashville11, I truly hope you don't leave the group. I think we all get heated and all (or most of us) do have the tendency to lump people together when we get passionate. My mother was a woman of faith and I know how that faith, and her faith community, helped her when my father passed away. I remember when Mom moved with my sister and bil to MO and was trying to find a church there. She visited several (and I don't know where she ended up) but she told me at one point that one of the churches she visited had a Starbuck's in their lobby! She was very impressed with that.
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Post by finreporter on Jun 4, 2020 20:36:13 GMT
nashville11 , i did make a comment about people and bibles the other day - so that may have been something that i said that made you feel uncomfortable. i'm really sorry about that. in any case, i do love that we can all share different perspectives even within the same side of the spectrum.
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Post by lani on Jun 4, 2020 20:38:49 GMT
nashville11, take a break if you need to. These are the strangest days I've lived through, and I go back to JFK's assassination and hiding under our desks at school in case of a nuclear strike. We are all coping as best we can. I know I struggle to express myself and I don't articulate things as well as I'd like to. I do think we are stronger together, but if this thread is adding to someone's challenges rather than helping, it's just too bad.
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Post by finreporter on Jun 4, 2020 20:48:11 GMT
lani, i agree. strangest days indeed. i have never lived through such stressful, angering and tense moments. the news feeds alone just kill me. esper stood his ground, until he didn't. people being bullied and bulldozed in the streets just standing up for their rights. the larger message being lost on some people because of the few who chose to be disruptive. more videos emerging of black people being treated like dirt by everyday people not just the cops. this president (enough said) etc. it's just so much to take in. every night when the girls go to bed i let out a huge sigh because of the weight of the day's events. explaining it to them to keep them aware in age appropriate terms. luckily school did a really great job during black history month and they are very aware of how things "were" but no one was educating them on how things still "are". it's a lot to deal with.
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Post by finreporter on Jun 4, 2020 20:49:50 GMT
Looks like Secretary of Defense Esper will be filing for unemployment soon. and this was just yesterday. how quickly one can change their tune when faced with whatever trump threatens them with.
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Post by Holly Gail on Jun 4, 2020 21:13:41 GMT
When my older dd was in about 3rd grade she wanted to go with a friend to her Bible group. I said okay. She came back after the first meeting and said she was told she was "unclean". She was very confused because as she told me she bathed daily. That was the last Bible group she attended. I was appalled. luanne, I would be too! The Bible uses the word "unclean" to mean "ritually unfit to bring an offering to the Temple." It has absolutely nothing to do with hygiene; nothing at all. And anyone who'd be stupid enough to tell a 10-year-old child she was unclean doesn't belong anywhere near children. unless they are using it as a shield to hurt others finreporter, People use whatever they can as a shield to get away with a myriad of things, don't they... I say, take responsibility for your actions; no one is holding a gun to your head or forcing you to do or to say hurtful things...
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Post by finreporter on Jun 4, 2020 22:01:22 GMT
When my older dd was in about 3rd grade she wanted to go with a friend to her Bible group. I said okay. She came back after the first meeting and said she was told she was "unclean". She was very confused because as she told me she bathed daily. That was the last Bible group she attended. I was appalled. luanne , I would be too! The Bible uses the word "unclean" to mean "ritually unfit to bring an offering to the Temple." It has absolutely nothing to do with hygiene; nothing at all. And anyone who'd be stupid enough to tell a 10-year-old child she was unclean doesn't belong anywhere near children. unless they are using it as a shield to hurt others finreporter , People use whatever they can as a shield to get away with a myriad of things, don't they... I say, take responsibility for your actions; no one is holding a gun to your head or forcing you to do or to say hurtful things... that is very true! seems a shame to use something that people (who are genuinely good) hold dear to their hearts as the shield though.
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Post by bbbearsmom on Jun 4, 2020 22:22:36 GMT
nashville11, I will miss you and your contributions. It is a rough time right now, seems like the roughest time I've lived through because I'm paying so much attention to it. Just had a memory pop up. I was driving either to or from work in my blue VW during the 1968 Democratic convention and the news from the convention was on the radio. It was all about the rioting. I remember being so scared and upset that I told myself I was moving to Canada (which I didn't do). Another memory I have during the nuclear crisis in the late 1950's was having a conversation with the boy next door about bomb shelters. I remember he told me a bomb shelter wasn't any good unless you had a gun to keep other people out.
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Post by birdgal on Jun 4, 2020 23:48:49 GMT
My intention was never to bash or harm anyone personally. Never. I've been part of this group when it went by a few other names many years ago. When it started!
I was wrong. I'm sorry. Please forgive me.
I've been hurt deeply by religious fanatics. Held down on the floor by religious zealots. Crazy, ignorant people beleiving they were casting demons out of my body. My Mother was hurt deeply by her religious leaders. My sister was molested by a man of the cloth. This is not the place for me vent about those things. I was wrong.
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