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Post by itsrad on Aug 3, 2018 19:59:52 GMT
It is interesting to me that I come here (or to the old forums) and people take seriously the GHG. My perception in the meetings, though, was that people didn't take them seriously. It was sort of like the government saying you should eat X servings of fruits and veggies. Yeah, yeah...but nobody does. My experience was the same. In meetings they were only occasionally glossed over. I didn't start taking them seriously until I started posting on the message boards. Making them the cornerstone of my PP experience is what made it so successful for me.
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Post by lavonm on Aug 3, 2018 21:27:11 GMT
I was so successful with PP, and then had the rug pulled out from under me. I've never been able to "find my rhythm" since then. I've given Free Style a try, and I just don't think I can make it work for me. I don't think it encourages more healthful eating. This is me as well. I joined at the beginning of PP & reached goal in about 13 months. I loved the program although I realized that it needed tweaked. One of the things I felt needed tweaked were the extra points. I knew darn well I couldn't eat all my extra points & maintain but that was okay. I found my rhythm & all was good until SP rolled out. I HATED SP & started to gain. It didn't fit my lifestyle at all. I tried Freestyle but I don't like it either. I finally went back to doing the GHG's & eating balanced meals. I finally have my weight stabilized so now I need to work off a few pounds. At this point, I doubt WW will release a program that will get me back.
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Post by limefan on Aug 3, 2018 21:41:35 GMT
I too have struggled since Smart Points. I have been with weight watchers for 11 years, so I have gone through many different programs in that time. I liked Momentum the best and after some trial and error was able to get Points Plus to work. I could not figure out how to get Smart Points to work for me and even though I asked many times for help at the meetings and with Chat, I just kept getting "you should be losing weight." Yeah, that is what I was thinking, but I did not. Now I am 20 pounds over my goal and have been fighting for the last year to just lose 5 pounds. But I have been up and down and cannot seem to get anywhere. I may just dig out my Points Plus books and go back to that and see if I can get somewhere. I just tracked on paper then, so I can go back to that. I actually prefer paper tracking as it seems more real than clicking on a food (at least for me). And, yes, the program will change again. I had hoped Freestyle would work for me, but I am not sure why it is not working.
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Post by 76trojan on Aug 3, 2018 22:50:31 GMT
My experience has been all the WW programs have worked for me IF I do them as directed. I’ve been fudging Freestyle though and have been maintaining my loss but decided today that since I’m paying for a Monthly Pass, I should give it a shot as written and see if I lose the last 15 to goal. I’ll report back at a later date.
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Kitty
Transcendent Member
Posts: 1,448
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Post by Kitty on Aug 3, 2018 23:17:56 GMT
I may just dig out my Points Plus books and go back to that and see if I can get somewhere. I just tracked on paper then, so I can go back to that. I actually prefer paper tracking as it seems more real than clicking on a food (at least for me). And, yes, the program will change again. I had hoped Freestyle would work for me, but I am not sure why it is not working. Here's the thing. I lost about 60 pounds on PP. I was dual tracking at MFP though. But, if I fit within my calorie goal at the time (average of 1200 calories a day) I found that I would have weekly point left over with PP (usually at least a third). Conversely, if I just tracked PP and stayed within my PP and then went and tracked calories...I was within my calorie goal. There was a connection between PP and calories. PP did give some guidance on how to eat through how points were calculated (and the GHG for those who used them), but if I followed PP I would be at a calorie deficit. And, if I ate my desired calorie levels I would be OK with points. The problem for me with Freestyle is that I can eat at a low calorie level and still blow through my points. If I was eating a lot of sugar or junk food that would be understandable. But, I really don't. The problem is that I now get 35 less points a week with Freestyle than I got with SP. With SP, I didn't have a third of my points left over but I usually was OK (not in the red). So it was ....OK. But, Freestyle took OKish and turned it unworkable. I don't want to eat another 7 points a day worth of zero points food (I already ate them quite a bit before Freestyle). And, if I don't then to fit within my points I have to eat at a very low calorie level....
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Post by zazzles on Aug 3, 2018 23:58:32 GMT
My experience has been all the WW programs have worked for me IF I do them as directed. I’ve been fudging Freestyle though and have been maintaining my loss but decided today that since I’m paying for a Monthly Pass, I should give it a shot as written and see if I lose the last 15 to goal. I’ll report back at a later date. The problem with Freestyle, IMHO, is there is practically no direction. Just track foods that aren't zero-point foods and stay within your daily and weekly points limits. Those of us who have come along through multiple WW programs over a matter of years have learned over time what healthier eating looks like, and we know the kinds of foods we should focus on. But those who are new to WW and have possibly never dieted may not have a clue how they should be eating; and lack of direction for those folks could cause them problems with not losing or gaining.
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Post by 76trojan on Aug 4, 2018 1:09:12 GMT
there is practically no direction.
So true. I also am finding that there is no emphasis in the meetings on weighing. I don’t even think they sell scales at my meeting. Although measuring cups and spoons are better than nothing, I find that weighing food on the scale is more accurate. So with my Chinese entrée tonight, I chose weighing the ounces rather opting for the “half a serving.”
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Post by sunshinep396 on Aug 4, 2018 4:23:48 GMT
This is a great thread, with lots of thought and experience put into the posts. I was most successful on PP. I lost close to 50 lbs. and maintained from mid-2012 until SP threw me for a loop. I absolutely hated it and ended up cancelling WW and doing PP on iTrackBites, which was much cheaper. When Freestyle came along, I thought it sounded much more workable, so I came back to WW. But my weight has crept up and up and I am currently 10 lbs. over goal. A good part of that is due to poor food choices and lack of regular exercise. Today, I cancelled WW again, moved back to iTrackBites and will continue with the Freestyle-type program, paying close attention to portions of zero point foods and getting back to regular daily walks. If things don't turn around quickly, I will go back to using PP on iTrackBites. At least on PP, I could have an occasional 1/2 C. serving of Bluebell ice cream without breaking the bank.
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Kitty
Transcendent Member
Posts: 1,448
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Post by Kitty on Aug 4, 2018 4:26:07 GMT
My experience has been all the WW programs have worked for me IF I do them as directed. I’ve been fudging Freestyle though and have been maintaining my loss but decided today that since I’m paying for a Monthly Pass, I should give it a shot as written and see if I lose the last 15 to goal. I’ll report back at a later date. The problem with Freestyle, IMHO, is there is practically no direction. Just track foods that aren't zero-point foods and stay within your daily and weekly points limits. Those of us who have come along through multiple WW programs over a matter of years have learned over time what healthier eating looks like, and we know the kinds of foods we should focus on. But those who are new to WW and have possibly never dieted may not have a clue how they should be eating; and lack of direction for those folks could cause them problems with not losing or gaining. While this is true the problem for me is that Freestyle is overly restrictive in practice while seemingly not restrictive at all. That is, WW says that you can eat anything. You are, well, free to do whatever. But, the cutting of daily points has made it where you can't really do that unless you really limit the types of foods you eat. My sense is that WW is really, honestly, aiming this program for people who start out eating atrociously. So you have the person who eats tons of added sugar and lots of saturated fat. Maybe both at the same time. As of 2010 people in the US consumed the most calories of (in this order): 1. Grain-based desserts 2. Yeast Breads 3. Chicken dishes 4. Soda/energy/sports drinks 5. Alcoholic beverages 6. Pizza Those are foods that are largely penalized by SP (note that chicken dishes could be read mostly as fried chicken). Imagine a new member who eats that common U.S. diet. That person is given X number of points and told to eat zero point foods. That person probably wasn't eating many zero point foods so it is relatively easy to do that. But if you were already eating a mostly healthy diet, already eating chicken breast and fish and beans and eggs and fat free yogurt, then when you suddenly get 7 points a day cut it is hard. You can't just add more chicken and fish if you were already eating them. That is part of why I find Freestyle so restrictive. I either have to restrict calories (below 1000 calories a day) or restrict what I eat pretty severely even limiting healthy foods that happen to still have points (milk based protein drink and nuts for example). That is what is driving me nuts....
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Post by 76trojan on Aug 4, 2018 4:46:48 GMT
“My sense is that WW is really, honestly, aiming this program for people who start out eating atrociously.”
Yes, and/or eating a lot. WW says you can eat anything but if you do, the reality is that the portion of that thing is going to be very small. (This I am discovering....children’s sizes will become the norm when eating out.) That’s probably a good thing for a lot of people in this country where we overindulge on too much food. It’s probably challenging though, as you said, for people who are already eating fairly healthy in fairly reasonable amounts to have points cut. Tricky.
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Post by cathygeha on Aug 4, 2018 8:19:22 GMT
I took out some of the old program material I have and looked through it - found the "Fat & Fiber" program that probably was a precursor to Core/Simply Filling. I did lose on that one and some of the others. Anyway, in my agenda I have added in areas to track carbs, protein, fruit, vegetable, fat and dairy. I am also tracking points...kind of a cross between the first points program and the last one I have (P+). I am not sure how things will shake out but am also considering a max and min for each of the food choices and will also try to track on MFP. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I have a feeling we all know what a healthy diet looks like and how much we should really eat. I think Points or calories or exchanges when COUNTED will see us lighter on our feet IF we eat less than our bodies need to maintain current weight. I also think that eating healthy foods will make us feel lighter/healthier even at our current weight. I know that if I overindulge on any food - even healthy food - I feel heavy in mind and body and sometimes spirit.
Love this thread. Am down on the scale after a couple days of recording exchanges...will see how it goes.
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ladymajky
Transcendent Member
220/169/150
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Post by ladymajky on Aug 4, 2018 12:39:05 GMT
I never could adequately explain to my husband why foods that used to be healthy on the PP program were all of a sudden problematic on Smart Points or Freestyle. The food hadn't changed. I was eating adequate quantities of food I liked. There were reasonable options to choose when eating out. I was successfully losing weight. So why all of a sudden were some foods so heavily penalized? Why was WW making this so hard, when I had been so successful? He was right.
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Post by bbbearsmom on Aug 4, 2018 13:16:17 GMT
Just sent this as feedback to WW:
I joined WW in June of 2006 this time. Made goal beginning of January 2008. I have pretty much maintained for over 10 years but have been gaining weight on Free Style. I was very concerned when it came out that I wouldn't be able to deal with the additional zero-point food and it turns out I was right, I have been gaining. I need to have values attached to food and drink so I can judge how much I eat having zero-point foods doesn't help me. It is like you are trying to get me to do intuitive eating. If I wanted to do that I would buy the book and follow it. What worked for me in the earlier programs was the structure that WW gave me. All I had to do was follow the structure and I would lose/maintain my weight. I am going to be doing calorie counting using My Fitness Pal to work on getting a handle on my eating. Now I realize even my fruit had gotten out of control. It feels like we were married and you are no longer the person that I married and we need to go our separate ways. Sad to see the old WW go.
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Post by bbbearsmom on Aug 4, 2018 13:17:50 GMT
But if you were already eating a mostly healthy diet, already eating chicken breast and fish and beans and eggs and fat free yogurt, then when you suddenly get 7 points a day cut it is hard. You can't just add more chicken and fish if you were already eating them. That's what happen with me. I was already eating mostly zero-point foods.
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Post by diva49 on Aug 4, 2018 14:41:38 GMT
I have a feeling we all know what a healthy diet looks like and how much we should really eat. WE (long-timers) might. Maybe. But many, MANY people have no idea. And that, IMO, is the problem / challenge / cognitive dissonance about Freestyle. I can "feel" as good as I want, but that won't help at the stove or the drive-through or the scale. Just sayin'... ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ I posted this on Sticker Shock, but much of it seems relevant here as well: Saturday 8/4, 8 AM meeting in NJ WW center: Substitute leader. We never got to the Weekly, although he did mention pages 3 & 4 (I think) and suggested that we review them. The no-Bravos, no-awards, no-stickers thing sort of whipped past. I did have a question about how my next 3 weeks of August would be handled - is there a way for me to check in and no-weigh (which is my current Lifetime-under-goal practice)? How will THAT be recorded, both for total body count for the group and in my book? I'll find out next week, LOL. We had an early question about "motivation" (and how to re-kindle it) that turned into a discussion about Freestyle that turned into a discussion about "making the Program YOUR OWN" - which is what Frank (leader - overall good, IMO) says we should all be doing. HOWEVER, one of the gals struggling the most is Lifetime/under goal and having difficulty making the shift to being self-directed as opposed to PROGRAM-directed. She originally made sure that she was using all her dailies (to earn her Blue Dot) but also consumed zero-point foods (because she likes/uses them anyway) and finds that she is having a problem keeping her weight where she wants it to be. I mentioned that IMO WW is send up "opposing and contradictory messages" for success at the scale. Yes, the zero-SPs list can be advantageous. Yes, those are healthy foods. But if one chooses - quite naturally, because they're favorite foods - a menu that has a lot of those foods and at the same time wants to earn that Blue Dot, one may end up consuming way too much food (really, wtm CALORIES) for wtLoss/maintenance to take place. My GF was finding herself with a sh!tload of SPs left at the end of the day and was consuming them - with a resultant wt gain. She is a Rule Follower with many years' tenure in WW, and has always been able to FOLLOW THE PROGRAM AS WRITTEN. But now AS WRITTEN (i.e., earning that Blue Dot) doesn't work because many of her choices "don't have SPs" in her tracker. And while yes, she can adjust her daily points allowance to reflect that, or quick-add all those 0-SPs with the prev SP values, her brain rebels against "rebelling against the Program as written". She's in a tough place - she's been struggling since the first month Freestyle came out. Also, IMO, it's all well and good to say that we should be making BETTER choices - but can someone please tell me where, in the CURRENT program materials, there is ANY guideline/structured plan that explains what they are - what, and how much of it, constitutes a BALANCED menu? Just asking... It was a good meeting. I heard from GF that the Thurs meeting stuck to the script (the NSVs handout) and that the Friday meeting went rogue with a rampage against the loss of the tchotchkes.
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